The Rev. John Ortberg
Menlo Park Presbyterian Church
Menlo Park, CA
Dear John,
With delight and gratitude, I followed your career at Willow Creek, and with attendance at many a conference, I was encouraged and blessed by your ministry and preaching, and how I enjoyed your careful exposition of Scripture, especially with your focus upon the Old Testament, the “Bible” of our LORD and Savior.
When you left Willow to become a Presbyterian, I gave thanks to God and prayed for you and the Menlo Park Church, for I am a Presbyterian pastor, and have been so since my ordination in January of 1970, First Presbyterian Church, Holland, Michigan. I emailed you a welcome note at the time of your transfer, and you were kind enough to reply.
As a pastor, I promoted your books and CDs, and used your material to guide some of my own preaching and teaching.
Last week, I saw “The Letter to the PCUSA,” and noted you as a signatory.
I felt as if I had been stabbed in the heart and betrayed.
I know many of the pastors on that letter, and I know the truth of that letter, and that’s what disturbs me so deeply.
Whatever pretensions there might be about the centrality of Jesus Christ with high doctrines of revelation, claims of orthodoxy, notions of mission for the glory of God and being Reformed, the root is politics and money and property and pride, buttressed by powerful interests on one singular issue: the ordination of gays and lesbians, and, in California, marriage rights. Fueled by the political far-right, the ordination of LGBT persons has become the line-in-the-sand.
That’s the defining element of “A Letter to the PCUSA,” because, otherwise, there is no reason to write such a letter proposing the essential dismantling of the PCUSA, the church of my ordination, and the church that welcomed you to Menlo Park.
Presbyterian pastors and their congregations have always enjoyed great liberties to conduct ministry and mission and congregational life as they see fit.
There is no reason for “The Letter;” no reason at all, other than pride, and the issues mentioned above: money, property and politics and a decision to leave a fellowship wherein LGBT ordination may someday occur without a fracas.
Carry on your work at Menlo, and let Menlo carry on its ministry, or at least be honest enough to tell the world that the ordination of LGBT people is so distasteful to you that you cannot for a moment tolerate being in a fellowship where their ordination might someday be possible. There is no need to hide behind highfalutin theological notions of the church’s purity.
In reality, the conservatives behind “the letter,” have been hungering and thirsting for a way out and the means to retain their property at the same time. What with gracious dismissal policies emerging, which I gladly support, many a large congregation, rich like the temple-keepers in Jerusalem, now can see a way to realize their dreams. Dreams emerging as far back as C67 and the “Angela Davis Defense Fund.”
Let’s face it, money and property are always the critical factors in the larger churches, and these days, politics, too. That’s the truth of this letter you’ve signed, and I fear it’s the truth of many a ministry represented by its signatories, a gathering of the “boys club.”
By now, you are no longer reading this letter, but if you are, I ask you to reflect upon your Willow journey, your effort to deepen that congregation biblically and historically, and, further, I ask you to retract your signature, because, in truth, “The Letter” is filled with flawed historical analysis and spiritually demeaning theological pretense.
Please, don’t succumb to the notion that the framers of “the letter” have the high moral ground on Scripture and tradition. The biblical work has been successfully done with regard to LGBT persons and their ordination, as the work was done in earlier periods of time with regard to persons of color, who were considered, both by the church and the US Constitution, to be less human than the white race, and the work done on the ordination of women.
Though, in both cases, there are those who yet question these developments, and who would be glad to return us to the days of segregation and racial discrimination and relegate women to the pew and teaching Sunday School. Willow’s own work on the place of women in the church ought to be a paradigm for you and the ordination of LGBT persons.
By now, you are weary of this letter, and I’m weary of writing it.
I fear that the signatories of “the letter” will walk into a dark corner, shared by the likes of Orthodox Presbyterians, Bible Presbyterians, Presbyterian Church in America and the Evangelical Presbyterian Church – fractured and fractious bodies, driven by a certain “Presbyterian madness” – the so-called “purity” of the church, with all love being truly lost. “The letter” is a formula for disaster, but like the powerful of Jerusalem, blinded by their unreasonable “trust in God,” the cry of Jeremiah goes unheeded, as Jerusalem, with its tainted sense of purity, speeds headlong into ruin.
With sadness and resolute determination to do everything I can to illumine the flaws of “The Letter to the PCUSA,” I am,
The Rev. Dr. Thomas P. Eggebeen
Interim Pastor of Covenant Presbyterian Church
Los Angeles
CC: To all the world.
I'm really glad to be here. It's a miracle, ya' know, that any of us are.
I don't know you, but I thank you for this. I hope our paths cross sometime. Thank you for trying to authentically live the love of Christ and promote God's vision for the church and the world.
ReplyDeleteLeslie A. Klingensmith
Pastor St. Matthew Presbyterian
Silver Spring, MD
Well said. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteBravo!
ReplyDeleteThank you for your prophetic witness!
ReplyDeleteMay God bless you for your love of your neighbor..
ReplyDeleteRev Thomas, thank you for this letter - this is the letter I wish I had written! I too am a long time admirer of John Ortberg and therefore I was surprised and extremely disappointed to see his endorsement. I too am a Presbyterian but a member of the Church of Scotland which faces similar issues. This Deathly Ill Letter to the PCUSA does nothing but harm and I thank you for responding in such a gracious yet firm manner. Blessings - Steven
ReplyDeleteTom,
ReplyDeleteThe biblical work on the question of homosexuality has indeed been done. See "The Bible and Homosexual Practice" by Robert Gagnon. On the other hand, the exegetical gymnastics of the heterophobic leftist fringe in the PC(USA) fail by every reasonable measure.
Perhaps you would consider admitting that property and power are the clubs you intend to employ to beat congregations into submission.
Let's be honest, no one was ever compelled to become a Presbyterian pastor. Honesty and integrity suggest that those who choose the Presbyterian church will honestly uphold the Scripture, the teachings of the Confessions and our ordination vows. If you come to believe something the church does not affirm, a person of integrity would select another denominational body.
Scripture, the Confessions and the witness of nature (natural law) all consistently bear witness to the fact that homosexual acts are sin, they are unnatural, and there is no condition of life that will ever make such acts "holy". For any genuine Christian, the phrase "homosexual marriage" is recognized to be a legal fiction. Marriage never was and never will be a term that properly applies to homosexual relationships.
The PLA (Presbyterian left-wing antagonists) has long waged guerrilla war against the Church. They are, at present, having some success in their assault. But when the true Church moves on, the PLA will be solely and wholly responsible for the collapse of the denomination.
Christ will build his Church, and no threat from the PLA, no extortionist plot to steal the property of congregations, no machinations of polity will keep the Gospel from advancing. But the sin you savor will do great harm before it is relegated to the dustbin of history.
The fight against heresy always has a cost. But the victory leaves the Church stronger.
Rev. Michael Neubert
Presbytery of Southeastern Illinois
Your letter reeks of arrogance. How interesting that you know the "real" agenda of the pastors who wrote the letter to the PC(USA), and how it is not about theology but money and power. Deal with the real issues for a change.
ReplyDeleteYou and folks like you, who have so outgrown the authority of Scripture and Christian teaching through the ages, really deserve you own denomination, freed from the likes of those of us who are in communion with the church universal through the ages.
I invite you all to so form your new, post-christian denomination on your own wallet, and stop trying to take ours with you.
Rev. Walter L. Taylor, Pastor
Oak Island Presbyterian Church
Oak Island, NC
I can't say "well said" or "bravo." In fact, I am saddened by both your tone and your language. You impugn the motivations of those who believe differently on the issue of gay ordination than you do. You simply cannot believe that those on the other side of this issue may have good intentions and motivations too. You accuse the Fellowship pastors of powerplays, greed, and pride, all the while ignoring the obvious claims that can be made that those on the theological left are after the power and money of the denomination for themselves. I'm sure you'll disclaim it, but your language reeks of a self-righteousness and fundamentalism that would do a devotee of Jerry Falwell proud. Not all the fundamentalists are to the theological right of center, not by a long shot! Your post provides further evidence of at least one of the points that the Fellowship pastors were attempting to make: our denomination is fractured and broken over issues of conscience that cannot be rectified solely by polity and structure, and the sooner we recognize that the better. I do not believe gay ordination is Biblically and ethically justified. I suppose that means you think I'm also full of hunger for power and greed and pride myself. In turn, I think your perspective is unbiblical to a mammoth degree, unhealthy for the church, and shows a slavish captivity to the prevailing culture. Sigh. Where do we go from here? Until we realize we have at least two groups who believe they are interpreting and applying Scripture well and are captive to their consciences, we will never be open to solutions that address this reality. But the mindset expressed in your post is that you want me and others who believe as I do out of the PCUSA. Now I ask you: just how inclusive is that?
ReplyDeleteThe way left and the way right are murdering the franchise.
ReplyDeleteHow sad that one issue has become the litmus test of fidelity to Jesus as attested in Holy Scripture.
Not to worry!
If nFog prevails, we'll just be a loose federation like the UCC; with every judicatory or governing body or council or whatever doing whatever the whatever they want to do with prayers that connections to Jesus are more than coincidental.
Parenthetically, nFog is just a lame attempt to keep the franchise from folding.
While I did not agree with everything in the letter from my theologically Neanderthal weltanschauung to the disappoint of those on the way left, I didn't find the letter to be as arrogant as suggested by those on the way right.
That's just it.
The way left and the way right have one thing in common.
Everybody's going to hell who doesn't agree with them.
So sad.
Come, Jesus.
Please.
www.koppdisclosure.com
I believe the authors of the letter made the point that the issue of "gay ordination" is actually a symptom of the more pressing problem of "...differing understandings of Scripture, authority, Christology, the extent of salvation amidst creeping universalism, and a broader set of moral issues." Do you disagree that there are fundamental differences between the various factions in the PCUSA around these topics? If not, how are two churches to remain in communion if they disagree on the most basic questions of whether salvation will be imparted to everyone, or only the elect? The point of the letter is that there are serious questions of orthodoxy at stake that make it impossible to work together because nobody can agree anymore on what we should be working on!
ReplyDeleteAs for your comments around property rights, what do you suggest--that all the members of more conservative congregations should forfeit their houses of worship? As far as I can tell, every church I've been a part of has done the work of raising funds, building sanctuaries and paving parking lots themselves. Why should any local congregation (whether 'left' or 'right') be forced from their property because they can no longer in good conscience remain in communion with those whose fundamental theological understandings create a de facto separation?
I find it ironic that one of the more prominent arguments for removing the chastity clause is that local governing bodies and congregations should be allowed to follow their conscience in whether they ordain homosexuals, yet those who cannot in good conscience ignore their understanding of Scripture on this issue are accused of every prejudice and evil motive from pride to greed to worst of all, bigotry. So, when those of us who hold to a more orthodox view of Christ’s redemption of the entirety of human sexuality are being called bigots, don’t you think it is a bit tough to remain in communion with those calling us names at that point?
On this point, I’ll finish with one final question: whose letter, yours’, or the Fellowship PC(USA)’s, contained the character assassinations and attacks on integrity?
I continue to be amazed at how threatened many people in the church are by this letter. If someone was not convinced that the church was fractured before, the vitriol that is being spewed at the authors is the best evidence to date.
ReplyDeleteI think this response, along with others, effectively proves the point.
Wow, you drew blood on that one!
ReplyDeleteI've been following the rising vitriol against acceptance of homosexuals in society at large and in the Church in particular for over 35 years. Since my days in college when the Fundamentalists in our chapter of IV turned against a member of our exec team because he shared his joy at discovering he did not need to stop being gay for God to love him.
For people like me this is not about what doctrine we believe, but whether we recognize our place as fellow human beings before the thrown of God.
From that day on, my own faith has been that if being gay is a sin, then I humbly submit to the thrown of God that the policy be revoked.
And judging from my kid's generation, if there ever was such policy, it does indeed seem to have been revoked.
I think you ask Rev Ortberg a valid question. Somewhere along the line, the Homophobic intransigents began to believe their own rhetoric to the point now that they really believe theirs is a crusade for orthodoxy, scripture and God. They obviously really believe that.
But it is nonsense.
Just as great theologians at one time believed slaves were not really people and blacks were cursed by God according to the scriptures, and all Jews were Christ killers.
But if even Rev Ortberg can be persuaded to throw his hat in the ring, it's a sad day indeed.
As history has shown time and time again, just because you passionately believe that God is on your side and your own view of Scriptures is God's view, it does not make it true. God has a way of resisting being put in peoples pockets.
It was only after defending Sodom and Gomorrah in the face of God's wrath that Abraham was called, by God, a prophet.
IF the Fundamentalists really want to be orthodox and tied to Scriptures, then my recommendation to them is to follow in the footsteps of the man on whom living by faith in God was coined. Stop trying to defend God to humanity, and start defending humanity to God.
And you will find Jesus standing right beside you.
Jodie
I still find it hard to believe that there are so many within our Presbyterian tradition who would limit the power of God to work through those whom He chooses simply because of their own prejudices. Did they not read Calvin or swear to be guided by our Confessions which proclaim that power to be both mysterious and unlimited? But, thanks be to God, the tide appears to be turning, given the Presbytery votes being reported. And I would remind that letter's authors and subscribers of the portion of the Westminster Confession which deals with those who oppose lawful authority in both the ecclesiastic and secular realms.
ReplyDeleteSO what are we to do. We need to respond to the folks who are outside the doors of the church, the gay and transgendered folks who have been told they can come in the buildings but they must sit in the back.
ReplyDeleteMany people will not now welcome the gay or transgendered person into our communions, but for years they have been blocked, defined as special sinners and have recieved the judgement of the church against them. History and the history of theology are both aligned over the years to define a same sex oriented person as some one who choses something wrong. There can be no doubt that these ideas have long been thought to bee the one thing that will never change.
Many times when the restaurants in the this country would not serve "blacks" many white people refused to spend thier money there.
This is how our human society embracees the changes that are inevitable. We become afraid and courageous. We attack each other. We accuse each other of doing something to make this happen. We welome the change and we resist the change. But the change comes.
Every week we pray ...thy kingdom come...and it comes. God is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored, in us and in others. There is a creeping universal, God is still in charge and will love whom God will love.
Dude -
ReplyDeleteYou have absolutely no idea what those who oppose you believe or why they believe it. I found this post truly hateful and judgemental. I don't think you would like it if John Ortberg took the cheap shots on you that you took on him. If I did not fear the reprisal of the loving left on my ministry, I would have posted my name.
So sad that many of you leaders that God trusted you to preach His word are bending to the pressures of society. Selling yourself and the church that you stand for. The issue of gay marriage was completely clear up until very recently.....God designed marriage to be between a man and a woman and furthermore Jesus did not condone homosexuality and spoke against it. I wonder if the pastors before you would even recognize you. Somebody said it right.....Jesus Come.....and come soon.
ReplyDeleteProb 23:23
As someone who knows him quite well, the fact that you think he holds the opinion you assume him to is a sign you are jumping to conclusions somewhat irresponsibly.
ReplyDelete